[he has a moment of faint relief- frankly he half expected paul to hang up on in for a while now, just cut the conversation. it would have been fine, at least in the sense he would have accepted it for what it was and knew maybe paul really was too much like the emperor. a shame but good to know who to avoid.
he takes a few moments to consider it, running a hand over his face before he answers.]
I see practicality first. If your corruption level is spiked you will not be thinking clearly enough to cope with this in a reasonable way, so I believe that should be your first concern. One we can handle if need be when I bring over the orbs and jam, so that at least is easy.
Outside of that personally it is the control you exerted that I find horrific, and what you should focus on to start. Why did you do it? What does it say about your respect for these people and for your respect of free will in turn? It is a lot to delve into, I am sure.
[Paul wants to sever the connection between them, and the fainter grey one behind that. The reason he hasn't is exactly because he wants to. If he can't trust himself, he shouldn't do any of the things that call to him.]
Yes. That's true.
[And cutting close to the bone.]
He told me once [there's only one 'he', black eyed and veiled in euphemism] that he always gives people choices.
That's what he did on the ship. He asked them to make a choice, and accept the consequences. Complicity or rebellion.
I didn't think it was a fair choice.
[There's more to it than that, but it runs up against the edge of excuses. He wanted to protect them. He didn't want them to die. He didn't want them to -]
Ah of course, a favorite of manipulative people. If it is your choice then of course the blame lies solely on you for making it, regardless of the events orchestrated and tweaked around that choice.
[ugh, he's not going to get into a jod rant now though. time to consider all this.]
I have not. [yet lmao] And I think I see what you were thinking. It was martyrdom again, that if you took the guilt and consequences of the choice on yourself then they would not be killed or have to bear the guilt of killing.
[Paul knows that it is. He always knew what it was, and what his Teacher was. But he'd let himself forget. Or worse: he'd let himself start to believe he was seeing that change.
The joke was always going over his head.]
I guess that you're right. [So small and trivially human a motive, laid out that way.] I knew they'd hate me for doing it. If that matters. I don't think that it does.
I can't pretend to know the man from two conversations, but yes, I believe that is exactly what it is. The saddest thing about him is I think he might believe his own grand narrative. I suppose they do say when you say a lie enough it becomes the truth.
[but that's just his biased opinion. not something he'll dwell on any more than that.]
You can't live for them. Their agency is who they are, and taking that even with good intentions is denying them what likely drew you to them in the first place.
For what it's worth I am sorry it was a choice you were forced to make. We were both aware things could go unpleasantly but I did not imagine to this extent.
[we being pal as well, who he is mostly trying to keep out of the conversation. whatever happened between pal and paul when everything settled was for them, not him.]
Don't be sorry for me. I wasn't forced to make a choice. I made it before we boarded the ship. It's not like the rest of them.
[They were lied to, manipulated, pushed into a situation that wasn't under their control. Paul knew what he was doing. He has to have known what he was doing, because otherwise it sets him in a lost, blurry place inside the boundary of transgressor and victim that his guilt will not allow.]
To be entirely honest I find it very hard to believe that you are self flagellating to this degree over a decision you made without any level of manipulation or desperation guiding your actions. I do not see why someone capable of making such a decision without some form of duress would ultimately care this much how it hurt others.
Understand I am not saying this to free you of responsibility or blame for what happened. I just believe that the only way you're going to learn from this and come to peace with it is looking at the matter plainly. The parts that are your fault and the parts that are not, even all the unpleasant places where the choice was influenced.
[Paul is stubborn. He always has been, even if it's more the waves against a cliff than the cliff itself. Viktor's insistence he acted under pressure is met with resistance even as he knows that it's true. He doesn't know where to hold the feeling, how to tuck in its edges and set it aside.]
If my judgment was what was compromised, how can I turn it on myself and expect to see the truth?
[either luckily or unluckily for them both viktor keeps meeting that stubbornness head on. it's an odd situation to be in, where he's part of things but not, where he cares about many of these people but has yet to truly get to know them. at the very least it makes it easier to be somewhat impartial, and easier still to be blunt.]
That is the point, isn't it? You cannot, not without time and likely not without help.
Tell me this, what did you expect when you agreed to go on this trip, when you were ready to do this? What were you told and what did you tell others?
I was told we were going to see what was out there.
[True, but not the whole truth, and he's glad of the isolation of text. He doesn't want to see Viktor's face for this. But what his Teacher said might be important to know, when it comes to his motive, and if it was a lie, it's worth knowing the shape of it all the same.
So Paul dredges up the leaden, humiliating weight of truth to heave at Viktor's feet, because he's trying to help, and there's nothing else he can do in the face of that.]
That he wanted to see if we could find a way to draw specific Sleepers here of our choosing. I didn't tell anyone that. I didn't want to give anyone false hope. I said that we were exploring.
[It's more pathetic than he'd imagined, laid out plainly. A stupid boy willing to believe anything for the right bait.]
I thought we were. If I'd been the one choosing a crew, knowing what would happen, I would have left most of them behind.
[viktor's not exactly unfamiliar with the urge to punch someone, really this is just the first time he knows what it would feel like to punch john in the face. not as satisfying as he'd like, honestly.]
So the 'sacrifice,' you were unaware that was coming?
Paul tell me this, can you see a choice you could have made in that split moment that wouldn't leave you feeling the way you do now?
[Perhaps the mark of a scientist is their ability to put things under observation and make them squirm. Viktor wields his questions like scalpels and hammers both, and Paul isn’t sure which makes him flinch more.]
I should have known. What else is prescience supposed to be for, if I don’t know?
I can’t see it. I couldn’t see it. He said I was his navigator and I couldn’t even see
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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he takes a few moments to consider it, running a hand over his face before he answers.]
I see practicality first. If your corruption level is spiked you will not be thinking clearly enough to cope with this in a reasonable way, so I believe that should be your first concern. One we can handle if need be when I bring over the orbs and jam, so that at least is easy.
Outside of that personally it is the control you exerted that I find horrific, and what you should focus on to start. Why did you do it? What does it say about your respect for these people and for your respect of free will in turn? It is a lot to delve into, I am sure.
no subject
Yes. That's true.
[And cutting close to the bone.]
He told me once [there's only one 'he', black eyed and veiled in euphemism] that he always gives people choices.
That's what he did on the ship. He asked them to make a choice, and accept the consequences. Complicity or rebellion.
I didn't think it was a fair choice.
[There's more to it than that, but it runs up against the edge of excuses. He wanted to protect them. He didn't want them to die. He didn't want them to -]
Have you ever killed anyone?
no subject
[ugh, he's not going to get into a jod rant now though. time to consider all this.]
I have not. [
yet lmao] And I think I see what you were thinking. It was martyrdom again, that if you took the guilt and consequences of the choice on yourself then they would not be killed or have to bear the guilt of killing.no subject
[Paul knows that it is. He always knew what it was, and what his Teacher was. But he'd let himself forget. Or worse: he'd let himself start to believe he was seeing that change.
The joke was always going over his head.]
I guess that you're right. [So small and trivially human a motive, laid out that way.] I knew they'd hate me for doing it. If that matters. I don't think that it does.
I didn't want them to find out what it was like.
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[but that's just his biased opinion. not something he'll dwell on any more than that.]
You can't live for them. Their agency is who they are, and taking that even with good intentions is denying them what likely drew you to them in the first place.
For what it's worth I am sorry it was a choice you were forced to make. We were both aware things could go unpleasantly but I did not imagine to this extent.
[we being pal as well, who he is mostly trying to keep out of the conversation. whatever happened between pal and paul when everything settled was for them, not him.]
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[As it turned out.]
Not that it matters.
Don't be sorry for me. I wasn't forced to make a choice. I made it before we boarded the ship. It's not like the rest of them.
[They were lied to, manipulated, pushed into a situation that wasn't under their control. Paul knew what he was doing. He has to have known what he was doing, because otherwise it sets him in a lost, blurry place inside the boundary of transgressor and victim that his guilt will not allow.]
I won't do it again.
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Understand I am not saying this to free you of responsibility or blame for what happened. I just believe that the only way you're going to learn from this and come to peace with it is looking at the matter plainly. The parts that are your fault and the parts that are not, even all the unpleasant places where the choice was influenced.
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If my judgment was what was compromised, how can I turn it on myself and expect to see the truth?
But I suppose that's true of all of us.
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That is the point, isn't it? You cannot, not without time and likely not without help.
Tell me this, what did you expect when you agreed to go on this trip, when you were ready to do this? What were you told and what did you tell others?
no subject
[True, but not the whole truth, and he's glad of the isolation of text. He doesn't want to see Viktor's face for this. But what his Teacher said might be important to know, when it comes to his motive, and if it was a lie, it's worth knowing the shape of it all the same.
So Paul dredges up the leaden, humiliating weight of truth to heave at Viktor's feet, because he's trying to help, and there's nothing else he can do in the face of that.]
That he wanted to see if we could find a way to draw specific Sleepers here of our choosing. I didn't tell anyone that. I didn't want to give anyone false hope. I said that we were exploring.
[It's more pathetic than he'd imagined, laid out plainly. A stupid boy willing to believe anything for the right bait.]
I thought we were. If I'd been the one choosing a crew, knowing what would happen, I would have left most of them behind.
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So the 'sacrifice,' you were unaware that was coming?
Paul tell me this, can you see a choice you could have made in that split moment that wouldn't leave you feeling the way you do now?
cw: blood in icon
I should have known. What else is prescience supposed to be for, if I don’t know?
I can’t see it. I couldn’t see it.
He said I was his navigator and I couldn’t even see
What am I for if I can't
He didn't even need me to do it.
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And there's a reason why certain manipulations root deep enough to effect decisions without conscious orders.
You're fallible, Paul, and that is okay.
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I should go. I have things to do. Nothing drastic.
You're a good man, Viktor.
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